Anyone interested in building a Ruby alternative to RoundCubeMail ?

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am
going to put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about
getting a Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM -
I have written a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with
my Maildir dir on my server - but starting something with the intention
of building a MVP and building that into something serious is probably
beyond me in terms of time required. However, if other people thought
this was a good project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be
happy to do add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of
testing . .

Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
E-mail: ***@pricom.com.au

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Irfan Ahmed]

I am interested to contribute. If you really want please let me know.

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am
going to put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about
getting a Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM -
I have written a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with
my Maildir dir on my server - but starting something with the intention
of building a MVP and building that into something serious is probably
beyond me in terms of time required. However, if other people thought
this was a good project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be
happy to do add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of
testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Aleeious Engine]

I am interested too. Even though i have 0 ruby knowledge at the moment, it
would be a great experience to learn from.

Regards,

Aleeious

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am going
to put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about getting
a Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM - I have
written a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir
dir on my server - but starting something with the intention of building a
MVP and building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms
of time required. However, if other people thought this was a good project
to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do add as much
code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Ratnesh Navlakhe]

I will be interested too. Please let me know.

Post by Aleeious Engine
I am interested too. Even though i have 0 ruby knowledge at the moment, it
would be a great experience to learn from.
Regards,
Aleeious

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am going
to put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about getting
a Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM - I have
written a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir
dir on my server - but starting something with the intention of building a
MVP and building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms
of time required. However, if other people thought this was a good project
to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do add as much
code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Alex Winters]

Please let me know when it gets here so

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:51 PM, Ratnesh Navlakhe <

Post by Ratnesh Navlakhe
I will be interested too. Please let me know.

Post by Aleeious Engine
I am interested too. Even though i have 0 ruby knowledge at the moment,
it would be a great experience to learn from.
Regards,
Aleeious

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am going
to put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about getting
a Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM - I have
written a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir
dir on my server - but starting something with the intention of building a
MVP and building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms
of time required. However, if other people thought this was a good project
to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do add as much
code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

Sadly, I have neither the time, nor do I call myself a programmer -- I'm
more of a hack-and-slash sysadmin type of coder, though Ruby is
currently my favorite language -- but I'd be wicked happy to see
something come of this. But I promise you, the path forward won't be an
easy one. But a New and Improved mail client (indeed, I'm typing in
Roundcube right now) would be really nice. I love-love-love Roundcube,
but:
* PHP
* Their thread sorting is backward, and they refuse to change it
* Getting long in the tooth
* Not really being supported, e.g., Roundcube Next Gen raised over $100K
-- and hasn't had any updates (at least, that I'm seeing) since October:
https://github.com/roundcube-next/ . As it was announced almost four
years ago, I think it's safe to say RNG is moribund-if-not-dead.

The good news is that there are libraries for pretty much all the
back-end stuff you might care about (e.g., IMAP, etc.). Doing the GUI
and tying it together would definitely be the tricky part.

There definitely does seem to be some interest. Good luck!

-Ken

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that. I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[w***@posteo.no]

Yes, I'd definitely be open to helping out.

I'd love to see an option in this proposed project for a javascript free, fast
lightweight webmail, a la gmail HTML, but more finely tuned and efficient for
the user.

But of course, you would have to start simple.
Though I suspect 90%+ of peoples' daily e-mail use _is_ pretty simple and
repetitive: read, reply, delete, move, change dir.

RCM I used in the past, and appreciate it is open source, but can't say I ever
really loved it. It felt slow to load, and not very keyboard shortcut friendly.

Are you planning to build this with Rails?
You could use ssmtp on the backend, perhaps ? I have used that in the past to
automate sending e-mails.
Does anyone have any opinions on if ssmtp sounds like a good/bad idea for this?

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am going to
put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about getting a
Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM - I have written
a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on
my server - but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of time
required. However, if other people thought this was a good project to get
started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do add as much code as I
could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

Post by w***@posteo.no
Yes, I'd definitely be open to helping out.
I'd love to see an option in this proposed project for a javascript free, fast
lightweight webmail, a la gmail HTML, but more finely tuned and efficient for
the user.

I completely agree that there should be an option to be Javascript-free,
but don't preclude it entirely: that's what Squirrelmail did, and I
believe it was their death knell. (Squirrelmail was "the" webmail
client 15-odd years ago. It still exists, but hasn't had significant
development since 2011, or even a release since 2013.)

Post by w***@posteo.no
But of course, you would have to start simple.
Though I suspect 90%+ of peoples' daily e-mail use _is_ pretty simple and
repetitive: read, reply, delete, move, change dir.

Agreed.

Post by w***@posteo.no
You could use ssmtp on the backend, perhaps ? I have used that in the past to
automate sending e-mails.
Does anyone have any opinions on if ssmtp sounds like a good/bad idea for this?

I don't know much about ssmtp -- close to nothing, really. How does it
differ from just using SMTP gems or what-not? I think one thing that
drives people away from installing things like webmail clients is the
complexity: e.g., setting up a DB, external application dependencies,
etc. Overall, if possible, I'd argue for simplicity when given the
chance.

$.02,

-Ken

Post by w***@posteo.no

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am going to
put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about getting a
Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM - I have written
a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on
my server - but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of time
required. However, if other people thought this was a good project to get
started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do add as much code as I
could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Aleeious Engine]

Why are you guys so against using Javascript in the project? I'm currently
using Javascript myself for a Nodejs related project and besides me having
slight difficulties due learning Nodejs at the same time as prototyping my
project it's great.

Regards,

Aleeious

Post by Ken D'Ambrosio

Post by w***@posteo.no
Yes, I'd definitely be open to helping out.
I'd love to see an option in this proposed project for a javascript free, fast
lightweight webmail, a la gmail HTML, but more finely tuned and efficient for
the user.

I completely agree that there should be an option to be Javascript-free,
but don't preclude it entirely: that's what Squirrelmail did, and I
believe it was their death knell. (Squirrelmail was "the" webmail
client 15-odd years ago. It still exists, but hasn't had significant
development since 2011, or even a release since 2013.)

Post by w***@posteo.no
But of course, you would have to start simple.
Though I suspect 90%+ of peoples' daily e-mail use _is_ pretty simple and
repetitive: read, reply, delete, move, change dir.

Agreed.

Post by w***@posteo.no
You could use ssmtp on the backend, perhaps ? I have used that in the past to
automate sending e-mails.
Does anyone have any opinions on if ssmtp sounds like a good/bad idea for this?

I don't know much about ssmtp -- close to nothing, really. How does it
differ from just using SMTP gems or what-not? I think one thing that
drives people away from installing things like webmail clients is the
complexity: e.g., setting up a DB, external application dependencies,
etc. Overall, if possible, I'd argue for simplicity when given the
chance.
$.02,
-Ken

Post by w***@posteo.no

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am going to
put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about getting a
Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM - I have written
a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on
my server - but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of time
required. However, if other people thought this was a good project to get
started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do add as much code as I
could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Karthikeyan A K]

Write code in Ruby and you will hate Javascript. Simple!

Post by Aleeious Engine
Why are you guys so against using Javascript in the project? I'm currently
using Javascript myself for a Nodejs related project and besides me having
slight difficulties due learning Nodejs at the same time as prototyping my
project it's great.
Regards,
Aleeious

Post by Ken D'Ambrosio

Post by w***@posteo.no
Yes, I'd definitely be open to helping out.
I'd love to see an option in this proposed project for a javascript free, fast
lightweight webmail, a la gmail HTML, but more finely tuned and efficient for
the user.

I completely agree that there should be an option to be Javascript-free,
but don't preclude it entirely: that's what Squirrelmail did, and I
believe it was their death knell. (Squirrelmail was "the" webmail
client 15-odd years ago. It still exists, but hasn't had significant
development since 2011, or even a release since 2013.)

Post by w***@posteo.no
But of course, you would have to start simple.
Though I suspect 90%+ of peoples' daily e-mail use _is_ pretty simple and
repetitive: read, reply, delete, move, change dir.

Agreed.

Post by w***@posteo.no
You could use ssmtp on the backend, perhaps ? I have used that in the past to
automate sending e-mails.
Does anyone have any opinions on if ssmtp sounds like a good/bad idea for this?

I don't know much about ssmtp -- close to nothing, really. How does it
differ from just using SMTP gems or what-not? I think one thing that
drives people away from installing things like webmail clients is the
complexity: e.g., setting up a DB, external application dependencies,
etc. Overall, if possible, I'd argue for simplicity when given the
chance.
$.02,
-Ken

Post by w***@posteo.no

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best current
option for my needs, there are still some changes / enhancements I would
make if I could - but it is written in PHP and there is no way I am going to
put any effort into learning that. I have often wondered about getting a
Ruby project started that could eventually compete with RCM - I have written
a few trivial Ruby scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on
my server - but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of time
required. However, if other people thought this was a good project to get
started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do add as much code as I
could and of course do a lot of testing . .
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Mugurel Chirica]

Post by Aleeious Engine
Why are you guys so against using Javascript in the project? I'm currently
using Javascript myself for a Nodejs related project and besides me having
slight difficulties due learning Nodejs at the same time as prototyping my
project it's great.
Regards,
Aleeious

There is nothing inherently wrong with JavaScript, and depending on who you
ask people like it or hate it.

The issue arrise with people that use JS with wrong purposes, that violate
the privacy or do even more nasty things to a user.

If you have time please read some article from GNU Free Software foundation
about Free Software (not the same as Open Source), even if you don't agree
it's alway good to know about it and it's values.

https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/freejs/
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.en.html

Cheers

[Mugurel Chirica]

Back on topic, I'd like to participate and see where is this going, sounds
fun.

Philip Rhoades, we have people willing to participate, when you have time
let's get this started!

[Irfan Ahmed]

Philip, let us know when we can get started.

Post by Mugurel Chirica
Back on topic, I'd like to participate and see where is this going, sounds
fun.
Philip Rhoades, we have people willing to participate, when you have time
let's get this started!
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Karthikeyan A K]

Incase you people are not following other thread
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm , just log into gitlab and goto that
link.

Post by Irfan Ahmed
Philip, let us know when we can get started.

Post by Mugurel Chirica
Back on topic, I'd like to participate and see where is this going,
sounds fun.
Philip Rhoades, we have people willing to participate, when you have time
let's get this started!
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

--
Regards,
Irfan Ahmed Rizvi,
Freelancer- Senior Ruby on Rails Developer
https://www.odesk.com/users/~01c44db951895e4589
m: [phone]
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[w***@posteo.no]

Personally I'm anti Javascript on the client side, but have no issue with it on the server side.

It seems to be that copious web browser exploits have come via Javascript.
Rowhammer.js, Spectre, etc. are modern exploits that can be difficult to prevent without changing hardware entirely.
Javascript made the web executable, but before it was just rendered. And many websites expect the client to pull in random pieces of executable code from all kinds of unknown sources, just for basic/any functionality!
I think websites nowadays demand too much from client web browsers, and web browsers can be kind of dumb and just follow any instructions, as consumer tech almost always maximizes functionality primarily, before security.

There's also various privacy implications - being able to fingerprint users based on their typing patterns, for example, amongst many other bits of info that web browsers give away. Try the EFF's 'panopticlick' to see for yourself, then try it with Javascript disabled.

Add to the above a compromised server, or a server owned by Cambridge Analytica etc.

On a functional level it is also often implemented in quite a 'heavy' kind of way, which can make a website feel cumbersome, slow.
CSS, however, is almost always rendered very fast, and modern CSS can provide various 'sexy' interactivity and design that that modern GUI developers almost always use Javascript for.

So it just seems logical, rational, that a website's GUI should be usable without Javascript, and then it can be added, optionally, for things that it would suit well.
Whereas the current modern trend is to just do everything with Javascript regardless... (???)

As I said, e-mail is a pretty simple activity, as are various activities that people use a web browser for.
For example, you could do a rich text editor for users with default browser settings, and a Markdown or plain text editor for those who want something Javascript free.
A web app for drawing, however, would be a useless without Javascript, refreshing the page per pixel...

Post by Aleeious Engine
Why are you guys so against using Javascript in the project? I'm currently
using Javascript myself for a Nodejs related project and besides me having
slight difficulties due learning Nodejs at the same time as prototyping my
project it's great.
Regards,
Aleeious

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that. I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .

I have created GitLab repo for my quick and dirty script that I wrote a
while ago when I was frustrated with Android mail clients because I just
wanted to READ new, unread mails while I was travelling - in case there
was anything urgent and I needed to phone someone. This is a long way
from a general purpose email client but it is what I have at the moment:

https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm

If other people start contributing stuff, I will get motivated again
too!

Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
E-mail: ***@pricom.com.au

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Karthikeyan A K]

How are you going to do the whole stuff? Like a client server architecture,
where we have a front end Javascript framework that consumes a JSON API, or
something like a monolith like Ruby on Rails?

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that. I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .

I have created GitLab repo for my quick and dirty script that I wrote a
while ago when I was frustrated with Android mail clients because I just
wanted to READ new, unread mails while I was travelling - in case there was
anything urgent and I needed to phone someone. This is a long way from a
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
If other people start contributing stuff, I will get motivated again too!
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[w***@posteo.no]

Post by Karthikeyan A K
How are you going to do the whole stuff? Like a client server architecture,
where we have a front end Javascript framework that consumes a JSON API, or
something like a monolith like Ruby on Rails?

This is probably the key question at this point

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Philip Rhoades]

A K,

Post by Karthikeyan A K
How are you going to do the whole stuff? Like a client server
architecture, where we have a front end Javascript framework that
consumes a JSON API, or something like a monolith like Ruby on Rails?

My preference, but I could be pressured by numbers, is to get a lot
working as a CLI project first - before building a GUI front-end. I was
thinking of something simpler than mutt to begin with. If people are
only interested in the sparkly front ends, the guts of the stuff will
never get done . .

P.

Post by Karthikeyan A K

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that.
I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .

I have created GitLab repo for my quick and dirty script that I
wrote a while ago when I was frustrated with Android mail clients
because I just wanted to READ new, unread mails while I was
travelling - in case there was anything urgent and I needed to phone
someone. This is a long way from a general purpose email client but
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm [1]
If other people start contributing stuff, I will get motivated again too!
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk [2]>

--
Karthikeyan A K
Founder of Code Tribe https://is.gd/codetribe
Author of https://mindaslab.github.io/I-Love-Ruby/
------
[1] https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
[2] http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
E-mail: ***@pricom.com.au

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Jaya Shukla]

Hey admin,please unsubscibe me

Post by Philip Rhoades
A K,

Post by Karthikeyan A K
How are you going to do the whole stuff? Like a client server
architecture, where we have a front end Javascript framework that
consumes a JSON API, or something like a monolith like Ruby on Rails?

My preference, but I could be pressured by numbers, is to get a lot
working as a CLI project first - before building a GUI front-end. I was
thinking of something simpler than mutt to begin with. If people are only
interested in the sparkly front ends, the guts of the stuff will never get
done . .
P.

Post by Karthikeyan A K
People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that.
I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .

I have created GitLab repo for my quick and dirty script that I
wrote a while ago when I was frustrated with Android mail clients
because I just wanted to READ new, unread mails while I was
travelling - in case there was anything urgent and I needed to phone
someone. This is a long way from a general purpose email client but
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm [1]
If other people start contributing stuff, I will get motivated again too!
Regards,
Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk [2]>

--
Karthikeyan A K
Founder of Code Tribe https://is.gd/codetribe
Author of https://mindaslab.github.io/I-Love-Ruby/
------
[1] https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
[2] http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

As an exercise I started converting the CLI version to a CGI version -
it lists the INBOX from the browser alright at least.

I have added pwm_cgi and .htaccess to the repo:

https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm

P.

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that. I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .

a while ago when I was frustrated with Android mail clients because I
just wanted to READ new, unread mails while I was travelling - in case
there was anything urgent and I needed to phone someone. This is a
long way from a general purpose email client but it is what I have at
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
If other people start contributing stuff, I will get motivated again
too!
Regards,
Phil.

--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
E-mail: ***@pricom.com.au

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[w***@posteo.no]

So do you still want to create a full RCM alternative? I assume it is installable as a package under Linux distros?
I'm more into your CLI idea, myself, which could then be adapted later, as you said.

I didn't look at your code yet but I definitely will in the near future.

If you do want to take the RCM alternative route: did you ever install RCM on a server yourself?
I haven't, so I don't know how easy or fiddly it is, but it would be important to match that level or difficulty, or easier.

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
As an exercise I started converting the CLI version to a CGI version - it
lists the INBOX from the browser alright at least.
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
P.

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that. I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms of
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .

a while ago when I was frustrated with Android mail clients because I
just wanted to READ new, unread mails while I was travelling - in case
there was anything urgent and I needed to phone someone. This is a
long way from a general purpose email client but it is what I have at
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
If other people start contributing stuff, I will get motivated again
too!
Regards,
Phil.

--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Aleeious Engine]

How exactly do you install a ruby package using apt or yum? Is there a
packager that allows you to create Linux compatible Linux distributions?

Regards,

Aleeious

Post by w***@posteo.no
So do you still want to create a full RCM alternative? I assume it is
installable as a package under Linux distros?
I'm more into your CLI idea, myself, which could then be adapted later, as you said.
I didn't look at your code yet but I definitely will in the near future.
If you do want to take the RCM alternative route: did you ever install RCM
on a server yourself?
I haven't, so I don't know how easy or fiddly it is, but it would be
important to match that level or difficulty, or easier.

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
As an exercise I started converting the CLI version to a CGI version -

it

Post by Philip Rhoades
lists the INBOX from the browser alright at least.
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
P.

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,

Post by Philip Rhoades
People,
I have been using RCM for many years and although it is the best
current option for my needs, there are still some changes /
enhancements I would make if I could - but it is written in PHP and
there is no way I am going to put any effort into learning that. I
have often wondered about getting a Ruby project started that could
eventually compete with RCM - I have written a few trivial Ruby
scripts to do odd things talking with my Maildir dir on my server -
but starting something with the intention of building a MVP and
building that into something serious is probably beyond me in terms

of

Post by Philip Rhoades

Post by Philip Rhoades

Post by Philip Rhoades
time required. However, if other people thought this was a good
project to get started - even just as a POC, I would be happy to do
add as much code as I could and of course do a lot of testing . .

a while ago when I was frustrated with Android mail clients because I
just wanted to READ new, unread mails while I was travelling - in case
there was anything urgent and I needed to phone someone. This is a
long way from a general purpose email client but it is what I have at
https://gitlab.com/philip_rhoades/pwm
If other people start contributing stuff, I will get motivated again
too!
Regards,
Phil.

--
Philip Rhoades
PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia

unsubscribe>

Post by Philip Rhoades
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Hassan Schroeder]

Post by Aleeious Engine
How exactly do you install a ruby package using apt or yum? Is there a
packager that allows you to create Linux compatible Linux distributions?

What exactly do you mean by "ruby package"?

[Aleeious Engine]

Post by w***@posteo.no
So do you still want to create a full RCM alternative? I assume it is

install-able as a package under Linux distros?

I was referring to that statement, i assumed it meant you can create a
distributable ruby app that can be installed like a normal app using apt or
yum or whatever software installer the OS is using.

Regards,

Aleeious

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 10:19 PM, Hassan Schroeder <

Post by w***@posteo.no

Post by Aleeious Engine
How exactly do you install a ruby package using apt or yum? Is there a
packager that allows you to create Linux compatible Linux distributions?

What exactly do you mean by "ruby package"?
--
Consulting Availability : Silicon Valley or remote
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Hassan Schroeder]

Post by Aleeious Engine

Post by w***@posteo.no
So do you still want to create a full RCM alternative? I assume it is
install-able as a package under Linux distros?

I was referring to that statement, i assumed it meant you can create a
distributable ruby app that can be installed like a normal app using apt or
yum or whatever software installer the OS is using.

Ah, got it, thanks. Sounds reasonable, but not in my wheelhouse...

[Philip Rhoades]

Aleeious,

Post by w***@posteo.no
So do you still want to create a full RCM alternative? I assume it

is install-able as a package under Linux distros?
I was referring to that statement, i assumed it meant you can create a
distributable ruby app that can be installed like a normal app using
apt or yum or whatever software installer the OS is using.

This little project is nowhere near needing a package manager for any
variety of Linux yet - it is still a toy at the moment, and, if we
assume that the server side (Ruby CGI ATM) script needs a little
knowledge of Apache or Nginx, then it is trivial for a person who knows
about that to put the script in the right place. If people here who
have expressed interest in doing some work on the project, don't know
how to set up the web server, then I can probably help them out with
that too.

Regards,

Phil.

Regards,
Aleeious
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 10:19 PM, Hassan Schroeder

Post by w***@posteo.no
On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Aleeious Engine

Post by Aleeious Engine
How exactly do you install a ruby package using apt or yum? Is

there a

Post by Aleeious Engine
packager that allows you to create Linux compatible Linux

distributions?
What exactly do you mean by "ruby package"?
--
Consulting Availability : Silicon Valley or remote
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk [1]>

------
[1] http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
E-mail: ***@pricom.com.au

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[w***@posteo.no]

Yes, you can install gems via apt or yum.
Linux package managers essentially just drop a few files (binaries or otherwise) here and there, and optionally run a few scripts too.
For example, the Puma gem (for running Rails) can be installed via apt.

But yes there are two newer (Linux-only) standards that aim to be more cross-platform than that - GNOME's Flatpak and Canonical's Snaps.
It may be easier to create something cross-platform (for Linux) with them. But they are in early days, I haven't tested them yet, or know how they work, and actually most people may be the same.

<tangent>
I saw a video of a Swedish OpenSUSE guy who said that perhaps programming languages' installers (e.g. Ruby's gem install) may become more important than Linux package managers, being very cross-platform by nature.
I think he said he builds an in-house Rails app that is distributed by OpenSUSE's package manager, ironically.
Note that using gem install and other equivalents for other languages is most likely less secure than yum/apt because it relies on HTTPS rather than GPG, whereas apt/yum can use both (assuming the person building the apt/yum package for the Ruby gem did their checks carefully).
Probably because it is harder to implement GPG when considering various OSs - MacOS and OpenBSD for example don't have GPG installed by default, they have their own things for asymmetric encryption/signatures, when checking downloaded software.
Apple _seemingly_ (closed-source) did a pretty good job in this respect - they nowadays force every app developer to sign binaries, even for apps downloaded via browser, otherwise it shows a warning.
</tangent>

I'm sure you could build a one line install Ruby RCM alternative, which runs at least on port 80 (for demo purposes). For example it could piggyback on a Nginx/Apache default installation (via apt depencency) which instantly open port 80 up and serve some default files.
It is important to focus on portability though, when designing software like RCM, to ensure that it is low maintenance to actually build these kinds of easy installations.
If something is to become at all popular, anyway.

Does anyone know if it would be possible, or actually reasonable, to use Puma without Rails? Because it works with _both_ Nginx and Apache, for Rails.

Post by Aleeious Engine

Post by w***@posteo.no
So do you still want to create a full RCM alternative? I assume it is

install-able as a package under Linux distros?
I was referring to that statement, i assumed it meant you can create a
distributable ruby app that can be installed like a normal app using apt or
yum or whatever software installer the OS is using.
Regards,
Aleeious

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

[Hassan Schroeder]

Post by w***@posteo.no
Does anyone know if it would be possible, or actually reasonable, to use Puma without Rails?

Yes. To quote the README:

"Puma is a simple, fast, threaded, and highly concurrent HTTP 1.1
server for Ruby/Rack applications in development and production."

It is not Rails-specific in any way.

Post by w***@posteo.no
Because it works with _both_ Nginx and Apache, for Rails.

Puma works *without* either as well.

[Philip Rhoades]

who.are.you,

Post by w***@posteo.no
Yes, you can install gems via apt or yum.
Linux package managers essentially just drop a few files (binaries or
otherwise) here and there, and optionally run a few scripts too.
For example, the Puma gem (for running Rails) can be installed via apt.
But yes there are two newer (Linux-only) standards that aim to be more
cross-platform than that - GNOME's Flatpak and Canonical's Snaps.
It may be easier to create something cross-platform (for Linux) with
them. But they are in early days, I haven't tested them yet, or know
how they work, and actually most people may be the same.

I have looked at both Flatpak and Snaps and they work but recently I
have also been looing at AppImage and Bitnami stacks - I just installed
Discourse with Bitnami:

https://forum.philiprhoades.org

and it was a much nicer experience than using the default Docker image.
Since we are talking about running a web server as well, and some of the
people who have suggested they might be interested in doing some work on
this seem inexperienced in that area, my inclination would be to build
an AppImage or Bitnami installer.

Post by w***@posteo.no
<tangent>
I saw a video of a Swedish OpenSUSE guy who said that perhaps
programming languages' installers (e.g. Ruby's gem install) may become
more important than Linux package managers, being very cross-platform
by nature.
I think he said he builds an in-house Rails app that is distributed by
OpenSUSE's package manager, ironically.
Note that using gem install and other equivalents for other languages
is most likely less secure than yum/apt because it relies on HTTPS
rather than GPG, whereas apt/yum can use both (assuming the person
building the apt/yum package for the Ruby gem did their checks
carefully).

Yes, agreed.

Post by w***@posteo.no
Probably because it is harder to implement GPG when considering
various OSs - MacOS and OpenBSD for example don't have GPG installed
by default, they have their own things for asymmetric
encryption/signatures, when checking downloaded software.
Apple _seemingly_ (closed-source) did a pretty good job in this
respect - they nowadays force every app developer to sign binaries,
even for apps downloaded via browser, otherwise it shows a warning.
</tangent>

I don't care about non-Linux stuff ATM - if anyone else besides me
actually does put some effort into the project, the Mac fanboys etc can
do their own thing in terms of packaging . .

Post by w***@posteo.no
I'm sure you could build a one line install Ruby RCM alternative,
which runs at least on port 80 (for demo purposes). For example it
could piggyback on a Nginx/Apache default installation (via apt
depencency) which instantly open port 80 up and serve some default
files.

Yes, good idea.

Post by w***@posteo.no
It is important to focus on portability though, when designing
software like RCM, to ensure that it is low maintenance to actually
build these kinds of easy installations.
If something is to become at all popular, anyway.

Not worth worrying about ATM - maybe a Docker or Rkt image later on?

Regards,

Phil.

Post by w***@posteo.no
Does anyone know if it would be possible, or actually reasonable, to
use Puma without Rails? Because it works with _both_ Nginx and Apache,
for Rails.

Post by Aleeious Engine

Post by w***@posteo.no
So do you still want to create a full RCM alternative? I assume it is

install-able as a package under Linux distros?
I was referring to that statement, i assumed it meant you can create a
distributable ruby app that can be installed like a normal app using apt or
yum or whatever software installer the OS is using.
Regards,
Aleeious

<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>

--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra NSW 2794
Australia
E-mail: ***@pricom.com.au

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-talk-***@ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-talk>