A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

--
Phlip

Mayuresh Kathe

2008-08-20 12:59:21 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

:-)

Michal Suchanek

2008-08-20 13:06:48 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

:-)
From the last discussion on this topic I got the impression that the

reason for this is very pragmatic: there is little hope that a mascot
that appeals to both Asian people and Western people could be found.

Looking, for example, at the Chinese Olympics merchandise I guess I
can understand some of the reasons behind this disagreement.

Thanks

Michal

Clinton D. Judy

2008-08-20 13:13:24 UTC

Which is why a great graphic designer could come up with something that works well in both worlds. It's possible, but you wouldn't want someone from either side making something that only works for their side of the world.

I'm with the mascot crowd here. I'm a big fan of ruby, but it's much harder to get attached to a symbol like the ruby. Personifying ANY language with a mascot makes it more fun. :-)

Plus, stuffed animals for the kids.

- Clinton

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@gmail.com [mailto:***@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Michal Suchanek
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

:-)

From the last discussion on this topic I got the impression that the
reason for this is very pragmatic: there is little hope that a mascot
that appeals to both Asian people and Western people could be found.

Looking, for example, at the Chinese Olympics merchandise I guess I
can understand some of the reasons behind this disagreement.

Thanks

Mayuresh Kathe

2008-08-20 13:17:27 UTC

Clinton, what's your opinion about http://www.hexley.com/

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Which is why a great graphic designer could come up with something that works well in both worlds. It's possible, but you wouldn't want someone from either side making something that only works for their side of the world.
I'm with the mascot crowd here. I'm a big fan of ruby, but it's much harder to get attached to a symbol like the ruby. Personifying ANY language with a mascot makes it more fun. :-)
Plus, stuffed animals for the kids.
- Clinton
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

:-)

From the last discussion on this topic I got the impression that the
reason for this is very pragmatic: there is little hope that a mascot
that appeals to both Asian people and Western people could be found.
Looking, for example, at the Chinese Olympics merchandise I guess I
can understand some of the reasons behind this disagreement.
Thanks
Michal

Clinton D. Judy

2008-08-20 13:34:30 UTC

I think it looks cute. It's easy to identify with. My only gripe would
be how loosely Hexley is tied with the BSD Devil; I think that would
need to be either stronger, or just non-existant. But I don't use Darwin
OS, so...

Does Perl, C, or Smalltalk have a mascot? I'm trying to come up with
starting points. In any case, a cute animal of some kind would be a
winner here.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mayuresh Kathe [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:17 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Clinton, what's your opinion about http://www.hexley.com/

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Which is why a great graphic designer could come up with something

that works well in both worlds. It's possible, but you wouldn't want
someone from either side making something that only works for their side
of the world.

Post by Clinton D. Judy
I'm with the mascot crowd here. I'm a big fan of ruby, but it's much

harder to get attached to a symbol like the ruby. Personifying ANY
language with a mascot makes it more fun. :-)

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Plus, stuffed animals for the kids.
- Clinton
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

:-)

From the last discussion on this topic I got the impression that the
reason for this is very pragmatic: there is little hope that a mascot
that appeals to both Asian people and Western people could be found.
Looking, for example, at the Chinese Olympics merchandise I guess I
can understand some of the reasons behind this disagreement.
Thanks
Michal

Mayuresh Kathe

2008-08-20 13:49:14 UTC

The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional, Darwin uses a lot of BSD code.
The Darwin kernel (Mach) is mostly pure, but the tools and utils layer
is all BSD.
Similarly, Hexley is basically the Platypus, but one *wearing* and
*bearing* the horned hat and trident.

Perl has the camel.
C and Smalltalk were created in those days when people weren't so much
interested in mascots :-)

Should I talk with Jon Hooper, the creator of Hexley?
Or should I wait till we have enough momentum from the list members?

Post by Clinton D. Judy
I think it looks cute. It's easy to identify with. My only gripe would
be how loosely Hexley is tied with the BSD Devil; I think that would
need to be either stronger, or just non-existant. But I don't use Darwin
OS, so...
Does Perl, C, or Smalltalk have a mascot? I'm trying to come up with
starting points. In any case, a cute animal of some kind would be a
winner here.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:17 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...
Clinton, what's your opinion about http://www.hexley.com/

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Which is why a great graphic designer could come up with something

that works well in both worlds. It's possible, but you wouldn't want
someone from either side making something that only works for their side
of the world.

Post by Clinton D. Judy
I'm with the mascot crowd here. I'm a big fan of ruby, but it's much

harder to get attached to a symbol like the ruby. Personifying ANY
language with a mascot makes it more fun. :-)

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Plus, stuffed animals for the kids.
- Clinton
-----Original Message-----

Michal Suchanek

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby

gem

Post by Clinton D. Judy

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

:-)

From the last discussion on this topic I got the impression that the
reason for this is very pragmatic: there is little hope that a mascot
that appeals to both Asian people and Western people could be found.
Looking, for example, at the Chinese Olympics merchandise I guess I
can understand some of the reasons behind this disagreement.
Thanks
Michal

David A. Black

2008-08-20 13:51:19 UTC

Hi --

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional, Darwin uses a lot of BSD code.
The Darwin kernel (Mach) is mostly pure, but the tools and utils layer
is all BSD.
Similarly, Hexley is basically the Platypus, but one *wearing* and
*bearing* the horned hat and trident.
Perl has the camel.
C and Smalltalk were created in those days when people weren't so much
interested in mascots :-)
Should I talk with Jon Hooper, the creator of Hexley?
Or should I wait till we have enough momentum from the list members?

You should talk to Matz. There's no official Ruby mascot unless Matz
chooses one or delegates someone to do so. And, mercifully, he has so
far done neither :-)

David

--
Rails training from David A. Black and Ruby Power and Light:
Intro to Ruby on Rails January 12-15 Fort Lauderdale, FL
Advancing with Rails January 19-22 Fort Lauderdale, FL
See http://www.rubypal.com for details and updates!

Hyaduck, John

2008-08-20 14:06:17 UTC

Perhaps the Pickaxe?

The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.

From: David A. Black [mailto:***@rubypal.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:51 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Hi --

You should talk to Matz. There's no official Ruby mascot unless Matz
chooses one or delegates someone to do so. And, mercifully, he has so
far done neither :-)

David

--
Rails training from David A. Black and Ruby Power and Light:
Intro to Ruby on Rails January 12-15 Fort Lauderdale, FL
Advancing with Rails January 19-22 Fort Lauderdale, FL
See http://www.rubypal.com for details and updates!

Gregory Brown

2008-08-20 17:33:09 UTC

Post by David A. Black
Hi --

You should talk to Matz. There's no official Ruby mascot unless Matz
chooses one or delegates someone to do so. And, mercifully, he has so
far done neither :-)

I vaguely recall some creepy post on RubyTalk with someone asking for
a high resolution photo of Matz suitable for hanging on a wall.
If we have a mascot, I vote for a Matzcot*.

-greg

(*) Which of course, is completely a joke. I am very thankful we
don't have a mascot, Ruby isn't a high school football team. :)

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com | Non-tech
stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com

Michal Suchanek

2008-08-20 17:58:16 UTC

Post by David A. Black
Hi --

You should talk to Matz. There's no official Ruby mascot unless Matz
chooses one or delegates someone to do so. And, mercifully, he has so
far done neither :-)

I vaguely recall some creepy post on RubyTalk with someone asking for
a high resolution photo of Matz suitable for hanging on a wall.
If we have a mascot, I vote for a Matzcot*.
-greg
(*) Which of course, is completely a joke. I am very thankful we
don't have a mascot, Ruby isn't a high school football team. :)

It looks like mascots are in general out of fashion these says. Even
NetBSD which had a fine demon for a long time went to a bland flag :-S

Michal

Gregory Brown

2008-08-20 18:06:07 UTC

Post by Michal Suchanek

Post by Gregory Brown
I vaguely recall some creepy post on RubyTalk with someone asking for
a high resolution photo of Matz suitable for hanging on a wall.
If we have a mascot, I vote for a Matzcot*.
-greg
(*) Which of course, is completely a joke. I am very thankful we
don't have a mascot, Ruby isn't a high school football team. :)

It looks like mascots are in general out of fashion these says. Even
NetBSD which had a fine demon for a long time went to a bland flag :-S

On the contrary, Prawn has a mighty-fine smiling ... Prawn ... as its logo:
http://prawn.majesticseacreature.com/

But I think individual projects can get away with more than a
programming language should be able to, especially once it becomes
more popular.
I can't imagine hanging on to our cuddly little crustacean if/when
Prawn is merged with the Ruby PDF project.

-greg

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com | Non-tech
stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com

Clinton D. Judy

2008-08-20 13:51:25 UTC

Definitely get more momentum. Looks like 2 for mascot, 5+ against so
far.

Can I hear some defined reasons why people don't like a mascot? Don't
know why a lack of a mascot makes Ruby much better...

-----Original Message-----
From: Mayuresh Kathe [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:49 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional, Darwin uses a lot of BSD
code.
The Darwin kernel (Mach) is mostly pure, but the tools and utils layer
is all BSD.
Similarly, Hexley is basically the Platypus, but one *wearing* and
*bearing* the horned hat and trident.

Perl has the camel.
C and Smalltalk were created in those days when people weren't so much
interested in mascots :-)

Should I talk with Jon Hooper, the creator of Hexley?
Or should I wait till we have enough momentum from the list members?

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Which is why a great graphic designer could come up with something

that works well in both worlds. It's possible, but you wouldn't want
someone from either side making something that only works for their side
of the world.

Post by Clinton D. Judy
I'm with the mascot crowd here. I'm a big fan of ruby, but it's much

harder to get attached to a symbol like the ruby. Personifying ANY
language with a mascot makes it more fun. :-)

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Plus, stuffed animals for the kids.
- Clinton
-----Original Message-----

Michal Suchanek

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:07 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby

gem

Post by Clinton D. Judy

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

:-)

From the last discussion on this topic I got the impression that the
reason for this is very pragmatic: there is little hope that a mascot
that appeals to both Asian people and Western people could be found.
Looking, for example, at the Chinese Olympics merchandise I guess I
can understand some of the reasons behind this disagreement.
Thanks
Michal

Tim Hunter

2008-08-20 14:12:32 UTC

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Definitely get more momentum. Looks like 2 for mascot, 5+ against so
far.
Can I hear some defined reasons why people don't like a mascot? Don't
know why a lack of a mascot makes Ruby much better...

If we're gonna have a mascot, can it be one of those guys that dresses
up in a foam rubber suit and dances around during a game? Otherwise I'd
just as soon not have one.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Chris Lowis

2008-08-20 15:17:28 UTC

Post by Tim Hunter
If we're gonna have a mascot, can it be one of those guys that dresses
up in a foam rubber suit and dances around during a game? Otherwise I'd
just as soon not have one.

And gets into fights with other mascots ? +1

Chris

Robert Dober

2008-08-20 19:32:01 UTC

Maybe I am just too conservative about it. I believe Ruby does not
need a mascot. A mascot is something people associate with a product
etc. I would hate if a mascot would imply something about Ruby. I
prefer people see Ruby for what it is.
That said I am not strongly opposed, just slightly, and I do not think
that it will matter a lot.

Cheers
Robert

--
http://ruby-smalltalk.blogspot.com/

There's no one thing that's true. It's all true.
--
Ernest Hemingway

F. Senault

2008-08-20 19:41:27 UTC

Post by Robert Dober

Maybe I am just too conservative about it. I believe Ruby does not
need a mascot. A mascot is something people associate with a product
etc.

C'mon, it has some good points :

http://freebsd-image-gallery.netcode.pl/?gallery=Daemonette

(But we need to choose an adequate beast...)

Fred

--
I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step
aside and weep like a widow to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to
witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of
our divinity and still be a human. (Tool, Lateralus)

Chad Perrin

2008-08-20 22:40:10 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
The likeliness to the BSD Devil is intentional,

That's a daemon, not a devil.

--
Chad Perrin [ content licensed PDL: http://pdl.apotheon.org ]
Patrick J. LoPresti: "Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1)
Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk
quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!"

Marc Heiler

2008-08-20 15:21:35 UTC

I suggest a lobster as mascot.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Clinton D. Judy

2008-08-20 15:29:59 UTC

Could you make a cute lobster? Or you could go the opposite direction, with an extreme lobster! With razor-sharp claws and all.

-----Original Message-----
From: ***@linuxmail.org [mailto:***@linuxmail.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:22 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

I suggest a lobster as mascot.

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

2008-08-21 04:14:07 UTC

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Could you make a cute lobster? Or you could go the opposite direction, with an extreme lobster! With razor-sharp claws and all.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:22 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...
I suggest a lobster as mascot.

So this guy gets on the plane with a lobster in a box. I ask the guy,
"where'd you get the lobster" and he says, "I bought it in the airport
-- I'm taking it home for dinner"

And the lobster says, "I've already had dinner -- take me to a movie"

--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com

"A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." --
Alfréd Rényi via Paul Erdős

Robert Dober

2008-08-21 06:36:23 UTC

Post by M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:14 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

So this guy gets on the plane with a lobster in a box. I ask the guy,
"where'd you get the lobster" and he says, "I bought it in the airport
-- I'm taking it home for dinner"
And the lobster says, "I've already had dinner -- take me to a movie"

We shall create a Ruby joke, BTW Ed, did the lobster like the movie?
R.

Michael Libby

2008-08-20 15:56:34 UTC

Post by Marc Heiler
I suggest a lobster as mascot.

I'd like to suggest a miner (you know, a pick-axe toting miner). Maybe
a younger one, so it could be a minor miner. Or maybe a pick-axe
toting baby Myna bird. Then it's a minor miner Myna.

-Michael

Pablo Q.

2008-08-20 16:20:15 UTC

I think that we must use a kind of artificial animal, like dogs. I mean, an
animal made by human beings because Ruby is for me like the first
programming language that actually speaks like human and has an human
behavior (able to says stuff in different ways).

Post by Michael Libby

Post by Marc Heiler
I suggest a lobster as mascot.

I'd like to suggest a miner (you know, a pick-axe toting miner). Maybe
a younger one, so it could be a minor miner. Or maybe a pick-axe
toting baby Myna bird. Then it's a minor miner Myna.
-Michael

--
Pablo Q.

Tim Hunter

2008-08-20 19:42:45 UTC

Post by Pablo Q.
I think that we must use a kind of artificial animal, like dogs. I mean, an
animal made by human beings because Ruby is for me like the first
programming language that actually speaks like human and has an human
behavior (able to says stuff in different ways).

Loading Image...

:-)

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Michal Suchanek

2008-08-20 22:04:27 UTC

Post by Tim Hunter

http://studio.imagemagick.org/RMagick/doc/ex/images/duck.gif
:-)

Shouldn't the duck be red?

It's a ruby duck after all...

:-)

Thanks

Michal

Robert Dober

2008-08-20 13:33:13 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
It occurred to me that while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem
itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

Yay! Another reason Ruby Rules!!!

Amen
R.

Marcelo Junior

2008-08-20 13:30:31 UTC

What do you think of a minerador?

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Marcelo Junior

2008-08-20 13:31:17 UTC

Post by Marcelo Junior
What do you think of a minerador?

minerador = miner

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Chad Perrin

2008-08-20 22:37:11 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Take for example the BSD Demon (Chuck)

Last I checked, that was spelled Daemon, and his name was Beastie.

--
Chad Perrin [ content licensed PDL: http://pdl.apotheon.org ]
John W. Russell: "People point. Sometimes that's just easier. They
also use words. Sometimes that's just easier. For the same reasons
that pointing has not made words obsolete, there will always be
command lines."

Suraj Kurapati

2008-08-21 20:36:02 UTC

while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

False. Ruby has had a mascot since 2004: the cute anime character
"Ruby-chan" ("chan" is a suffix of endearment in Japanese; something
like "lil' Ruby") designed by Yoshida Masato:

http://www.yoshidam.net/Ruby-chan/

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Pablo Q.

2008-08-21 20:45:14 UTC

WFT!

Post by Mayuresh Kathe

while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem itself) it doesn't have a

mascot.
False. Ruby has had a mascot since 2004: the cute anime character
"Ruby-chan" ("chan" is a suffix of endearment in Japanese; something
http://www.yoshidam.net/Ruby-chan/
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

--
Pablo Q.

Matt Harrison

2008-08-21 20:56:14 UTC

Post by Suraj Kurapati

while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

False. Ruby has had a mascot since 2004: the cute anime character
"Ruby-chan" ("chan" is a suffix of endearment in Japanese; something
http://www.yoshidam.net/Ruby-chan/

A mascot for a grown-up programming language has a version which is nude???

How inappropriate. I'm glad this mascot isn't widely acknowledged as it
is not only irrelevant to ruby, it's also quite childish.

I would hope that if Ruby did officially adopt a mascot it would be much
more suited to it's task.

Matt

Martin Bryce

2008-08-21 22:10:43 UTC

Post by Matt Harrison

False. Ruby has had a mascot since 2004 (...)

Ruby-tan. I knew that there had to be one... (And there is even the
meido version! ;)

Post by Matt Harrison
A mascot for a grown-up programming language has a version which is nude???

I understand you don't like manga ;)

Post by Matt Harrison
How inappropriate. I'm glad this mascot isn't widely acknowledged as it
is not only irrelevant to ruby, it's also quite childish.

But very Japanese... did you know that the hometown of mangaka Gosho
Aoyama used images from his "Meitantei Conan" (called "Case Closed" in
America) as anti-counterfeiting features in official documents? Or that
even the Japanese Self-Defence Forces have been seen using cutesy
anime-styled super-deformed mascots in official publicity materials?
(Those are not exactly anime-gals, yeah, but I think they're even
"worse". After all pinups have always had a strong association with the
military ;) )

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

David Masover

2008-08-22 03:58:03 UTC

Post by Matt Harrison
A mascot for a grown-up programming language has a version which is nude???

*gasp* Nudity! That could never be art...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_(Michelangelo)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_de_milo

Or a logo...

http://www.deadprogrammer.com/starbucks-logo-mermaid

Post by Matt Harrison
I'm glad this mascot isn't widely acknowledged as it
is not only irrelevant to ruby, it's also quite childish.

Well, hey, one more:

http://python.org/

And, of course, some variations:

http://www.cafepress.com/wxpython

Quite childish, and somewhat less to do with the origin of the name (which is
Monty Python, not actual pythons).

Post by Matt Harrison
I would hope that if Ruby did officially adopt a mascot it would be much
more suited to it's task.

Well, again -- see Starbucks.

I'm not really sure how you would make a logo relevant, here.

At the end of the day, Ruby is about making programming easier, and about
making the computer work for you. I honestly have trouble figuring out how to
put that into a logo -- a robot in a maid uniform? A happy person sitting at
a computer?

Some of the better-known logos in software

http://kernel.org/

have NOTHING to do with their projects, either in name or in content.

At least ruby-chan has red hair! And she looks pretty -- Ruby is also about
beautiful code. Could be argued that it's about sexy code, but I'll say no
more about that.

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. I like Ruby-chan, but I also see value in
not having a mascot.

I have no opinion either way, other than "Kawaii!"

Robert Dober

2008-08-22 07:27:16 UTC

... and I still do not know if the lobster liked dinner!

David A. Black

2008-08-22 11:41:24 UTC

Hi --

Post by David Masover

Post by Matt Harrison
A mascot for a grown-up programming language has a version which is nude???

*gasp* Nudity! That could never be art...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_(Michelangelo)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_de_milo
Or a logo...
http://www.deadprogrammer.com/starbucks-logo-mermaid

Starbucks isn't my role model as a Rubyist (or in any other respect).

Post by David Masover
At least ruby-chan has red hair! And she looks pretty -- Ruby is also about
beautiful code. Could be argued that it's about sexy code, but I'll say no
more about that.

A human female is not an appropriate choice for a "mascot." Here's
what I wrote about it more than seven years ago, when this alarming
suggestion first reared its head:

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/14209

David

David Masover

2008-08-24 00:42:15 UTC

Post by David A. Black

Post by David Masover
http://www.deadprogrammer.com/starbucks-logo-mermaid

Starbucks isn't my role model as a Rubyist (or in any other respect).

Starbucks is massively popular, despite being as expensive as they are.

They also have a habit of building insane amounts of brand loyalty -- an
oft-cited example (that I still can't verify) is the guy who went on a coffee
run for his office, and dropped the tray (spilling all the coffee) on his way
back.

So, the girl at the counter noticed him ordering the exact same thing, again,
and asked why -- found out he'd dropped the tray -- and gave him the order
free.

I'd say that's something to respect -- either in the actual
brand-loyalty-building genius, or the sheer viral marketing genius if the
story isn't real.

Gregory Brown

2008-08-24 02:38:00 UTC

Post by David Masover
So, the girl at the counter noticed him ordering the exact same thing, again,
and asked why -- found out he'd dropped the tray -- and gave him the order
free.
I'd say that's something to respect -- either in the actual
brand-loyalty-building genius, or the sheer viral marketing genius if the
story isn't real.

Very sweet story, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starbucks#Criticism_and_controversy

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com | Non-tech
stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com

David A. Black

2008-08-21 23:20:06 UTC

Hi --

Post by Suraj Kurapati

while Ruby probably has a logo (the ruby gem itself) it doesn't have a mascot.

False. Ruby has had a mascot since 2004: the cute anime character
"Ruby-chan" ("chan" is a suffix of endearment in Japanese; something

Ruby has no mascot, and I hope it stays that way.

David

Joel VanderWerf

2008-08-22 00:04:07 UTC

Post by David A. Black
Ruby has no mascot, and I hope it stays that way.

Let's not forget the snail fiasco :)

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/21962

--
vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665 3407

Daniel N

2008-08-22 00:27:21 UTC

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Joel VanderWerf

Post by Joel VanderWerf

Post by David A. Black
Ruby has no mascot, and I hope it stays that way.

Let's not forget the snail fiasco :)
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/21962
--
vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665 3407

+1 for Ruby never having a mascot.

Alarm bells have started to ring.

David A. Black

2008-08-22 00:34:50 UTC

Post by Joel VanderWerf

Post by David A. Black
Ruby has no mascot, and I hope it stays that way.

Let's not forget the snail fiasco :)
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/21962

Snailgate.

David

Joshua Ballanco

2008-08-22 00:26:27 UTC

Post by David A. Black
Hi --
Ruby has no mascot, and I hope it stays that way.

Ruby has _why, ergo no need for a mascot!

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Karl von Laudermann

2008-08-22 14:21:10 UTC

Post by Joshua Ballanco
Ruby has _why, ergo no need for a mascot!

Actually, didn't _why create this duck to be a ruby mascot?
Loading Image...

Pablo Q.

2008-08-22 17:22:14 UTC

Post by Karl von Laudermann

I like it! :D, but If you havenŽt read all post before please do it,

There are many position in the discussion:

1. Ruby doesn't need mascot.
2. Mascot must be male.
3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version! cool,
isnŽt it?).
4. It must be Human or Animal
5. Matz must decide
6. ....

Post by Joshua Ballanco
Ruby has _why, ergo no need for a mascot!

Actually, didn't _why create this duck to be a ruby mascot?
http://redhanded.hobix.com/images/redhanded-duck.gif
--

Pablo Q.

Gregory Brown

2008-08-22 17:44:10 UTC

I like it! :D, but If you haven´t read all post before please do it,
2. Mascot must be male.

I don't think that was David's point at all. I think he believes that
a human mascot is generally a bad idea.

3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version! cool,
isn´t it?).

I think the girl is cute, but especially the nude version is a bit
patronizing. We should think about what female programmers will think
of Ruby upon encountering that. I'm sure the feelings will be varied,
but I suspect that'd seem a bit offensive to at least some people.

-greg

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com | Non-tech
stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com

Emmanuel Rubio

2008-08-22 19:48:53 UTC

:D i'm a graphic designer. :P (if you need some one to draw or create
the mascot)

personaly, i think the best of all mascot that Ruby could have is a
racoon it fits perfect with it (not only related to de ruby and the
funny interest of racoons with shiny things) because it is the animal
that always search for the easy way to take what it needs, it is one of
the most agile, smart, fast and dexterous animals in the world (don't
forget that they have learned to use their hands and finger like human
hands and fingers in a lot of their needs) and i think that Ruby is
exactly that, it search the easiest ways to do the things, it is a smart
programing lenguage, and c'mon ruby is the only lenguage that learns to
use every word and object like the human brain... there are a lot of
behaviours more, :P well it is just my opinion ^^

any way, if you need someone to help with the design of anything just
contact me ;)

(sorry for my bad english :P)

Emmanuel Rubio
***@hotmail.com

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Pablo Q.

2008-08-22 20:29:36 UTC

I think that this is the reason of why If itŽs a Manga, it must be a girl (
http://www.yoshidam.net/Ruby-chan/):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-tan

"The OS-tans are the moe anthropomorphism/personification of several
operating systems by various amateur Japanese artists. The OS-tans are
typically depicted as women, with the OS-tans representative of Microsoft
Windows operating systems usually depicted as sisters of varying ages."

ItŽs an kind of Ruby Prog-tan!

Post by Emmanuel Rubio
:D i'm a graphic designer. :P (if you need some one to draw or create
the mascot)
personaly, i think the best of all mascot that Ruby could have is a
racoon it fits perfect with it (not only related to de ruby and the
funny interest of racoons with shiny things) because it is the animal
that always search for the easy way to take what it needs, it is one of
the most agile, smart, fast and dexterous animals in the world (don't
forget that they have learned to use their hands and finger like human
hands and fingers in a lot of their needs) and i think that Ruby is
exactly that, it search the easiest ways to do the things, it is a smart
programing lenguage, and c'mon ruby is the only lenguage that learns to
use every word and object like the human brain... there are a lot of
behaviours more, :P well it is just my opinion ^^
any way, if you need someone to help with the design of anything just
contact me ;)
(sorry for my bad english :P)
Emmanuel Rubio
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

--
Pablo Q.

Rick DeNatale

2008-08-22 22:14:13 UTC

Post by Pablo Q.
I like it! :D, but If you havenŽt read all post before please do it,
3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!

cool,

Post by Pablo Q.
isnŽt it?).

Well FWIW, I just showed Ruby to a female coworker, and she thought that:
1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!

--
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/

Gregory Brown

2008-08-22 22:36:21 UTC

Post by Rick DeNatale

I like it! :D, but If you haven´t read all post before please do it,
3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!

cool,

isn´t it?).

1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!

Now just show that to most other female Ruby programmers and we'll see
how they feel. I think my girlfriend probably find the manga cute.
But then again, she is Asian, and not put off by nudity.

But I cannot assume the same about most people. How many of you male
programmers would like a large, muscular, naked man as our Ruby logo?

I think that would be awesome, but I'm not sure you'll all agree...

-greg

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com | Non-tech
stuff at: http://metametta.blogspot.com

Suraj Kurapati

2008-08-22 23:59:58 UTC

Post by Gregory Brown
I think the girl is cute, but especially the nude version is a bit
patronizing. We should think about what female programmers will think
of Ruby upon encountering that. I'm sure the feelings will be varied,
but I suspect that'd seem a bit offensive to at least some people.

How many of you male

programmers would like a large, muscular, naked man as our Ruby logo?

Why is everyone so focused on the nude drawing? There _are_ *other*
drawings on that page you know! In particular, this one embodies all
the cuteness of Ruby-chan without being offensive to Westerners:

Loading Image...

We should appreciate the fact that, in the spirit of the Ruby language's
TIMTOWTDI philosophy, Yoshida-san has drawn *several* variations of the
mascot on our behalf. Choose the one that suits you best and be happy!

enjoy if drawings.find {|d| self.acceptable? d }

NOT:

complain unless drawings.all? {|d| self.acceptable? d }

ma-ttaku!

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

David Masover

2008-08-24 00:49:33 UTC

Post by Gregory Brown
How many of you male
programmers would like a large, muscular, naked man as our Ruby logo?
I think that would be awesome, but I'm not sure you'll all agree...

I'd have to see it. Some large, muscular, naked men are prettier than
others...

Did I say that out loud?

john maclean

2008-08-22 22:47:31 UTC

Post by Rick DeNatale

I like it! :D, but If you haven´t read all post before please do it,
3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!

cool,

isn´t it?).

1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!
--
Rick DeNatale
My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/

OK then!

What about the gem from the front cover of the famous book, with a
tail, (of bacon?) and legs holding a pickaxe? That way it could be
naked too __and__ be female at the same time because no one would know
what the sexuality of the gem was?

I've never understood the emacs logo and I didn't know one for lisp
existed. Is there one for bash, awk, sed....

--
John Maclean - 07739 171 531
MSc (DIC)

David Masover

2008-08-24 00:54:37 UTC

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Gregory Brown

I like it! :D, but If you haven´t read all post before please do it,
3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!

cool,

isn´t it?).

1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!

I think it's interesting what the reaction is...

The most valid response, so far, has been "Ruby doesn't need a mascot!" And to
those people, I would say, "Why would you care if it does?" It's been a long
time since I've thought about penguins, and I use Linux every day.

What seems very strange is that more people seem to be saying "Oh no, what if
someone was offended by it?" than "I, personally, am offended."

Are we that bad that all it takes is the _possibility_ of puritanical outrage
to make us back down?

David A. Black

2008-08-24 02:23:13 UTC

Hi --

Post by David Masover

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Gregory Brown

I like it! :D, but If you havenÂŽt read all post before please do it,
3. Ruby already have one ( an pretty manga-girl, with a nude version!

cool,

isnÂŽt it?).

1) She was cute and
2) The nude version showed that she was both flexible, and quite
appropriate for Ruby the language, agile!

I think it's interesting what the reaction is...
The most valid response, so far, has been "Ruby doesn't need a mascot!" And to
those people, I would say, "Why would you care if it does?" It's been a long
time since I've thought about penguins, and I use Linux every day.
What seems very strange is that more people seem to be saying "Oh no, what if
someone was offended by it?" than "I, personally, am offended."

OK, I'll make it easier for you. I, personally, am offended by the
suggestion that a cute little (naked or otherwise) girl named Ruby be
the Ruby "mascot." It disturbs me that the idea has resurfaced so many
years after -- I thought -- having been put to amply-deserved rest.

Post by David Masover
Are we that bad that all it takes is the _possibility_ of puritanical outrage
to make us back down?

I don't have to "back down" from putting the image on my Ruby-related
sites because it would never occur to me to do it in the first place.

Please -- everyone, just put whatever images you want on your
websites, and have done with it. If Matz wants there to be a Ruby
mascot I'm sure he'll let us know. Meanwhile please channel some of
this energy into real issues, like why we as a community have not
blazed the new trail of inclusiveness across sexual boundaries that it
once seemed we might. And maybe we will yet. That, unlike debate as to
whether Ruby should be represented by a girl or a chunk of bacon, is
the kind of thing that might really lead somewhere.

David

Wilson Bilkovich

2008-08-24 03:18:31 UTC

Post by David A. Black
I don't have to "back down" from putting the image on my Ruby-related
sites because it would never occur to me to do it in the first place.
Please -- everyone, just put whatever images you want on your
websites, and have done with it. If Matz wants there to be a Ruby
mascot I'm sure he'll let us know. Meanwhile please channel some of
this energy into real issues, like why we as a community have not
blazed the new trail of inclusiveness across sexual boundaries that it
once seemed we might. And maybe we will yet. That, unlike debate as to
whether Ruby should be represented by a girl or a chunk of bacon, is
the kind of thing that might really lead somewhere.

Well said. We should just link to this message when this topic arises
yet again, next year.

--Wilson.

David Masover

2008-08-24 04:28:12 UTC

Post by David A. Black
OK, I'll make it easier for you. I, personally, am offended by the
suggestion that a cute little (naked or otherwise) girl named Ruby be
the Ruby "mascot."

You're one person... but I was generalizing.

However...

Post by David A. Black
Meanwhile please channel some of
this energy into real issues, like why we as a community have not
blazed the new trail of inclusiveness across sexual boundaries that it
once seemed we might.

Ok, I'm curious -- how many females have seen this image? How many have
actually been offended by it? (I'm assuming "David" is male.)

I think we do more harm to that "inclusiveness" by focusing on this issue at
all. But I'm not really qualified to debate that. (Are you?)

But if you'd rather talk about inclusiveness... Is Ruby particularly
under-represented, among programming languages? We're talking about a very
small niche of an already male-dominated field.

I can see why you're tired of this issue. I'll stop.

David A. Black

2008-08-24 11:24:55 UTC

Hi --

Post by David Masover
But if you'd rather talk about inclusiveness... Is Ruby particularly
under-represented, among programming languages? We're talking about a very
small niche of an already male-dominated field.

It's not that Ruby is particularly male-dominated; it's that it isn't
more equitable and integrated, as to sex, than other technical
communities. It seemed to me, and others I think, at one point that
the possibility existed of Ruby distinguishing itself through its
inclusiveness. The hope was that Ruby could break the cycle. We have
some extremely accomplished women in our midst, but I think they'd
agree that, so far at least, we haven't broken the mold of the more or
less typical technical community.

My attitude toward Ruby has always been that our community has the
power to do things right -- not to look to precedents, and not to use
less-than-exemplary exemplars as a justification for what we do, but
to do things right. In some respects I think we've done it. In the
matter of breaking out of the boys'-club paradigm to any really
impressive degree, we haven't.

David

_why

2008-08-24 16:38:45 UTC

Post by Karl von Laudermann
Actually, didn't _why create this duck to be a ruby mascot?
http://redhanded.hobix.com/images/redhanded-duck.gif

http://whytheluckystiff.net/clog/ruby/theOnlyCopyrightlessDuckInRecentHistory.html

It is only a duck used to evade copyright infringement. A personal
mascot, spawned by a thread long ago called "duck images" here on
ruby-talk. There used to have a drb server that would cough up ASCII
duck animations.

I know matz was originally amenable to the ruby-crowned kinglet.
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/1469

_why

Mikael Høilund

2008-08-25 02:01:59 UTC

Post by _why

Post by Karl von Laudermann
Actually, didn't _why create this duck to be a ruby mascot?
http://redhanded.hobix.com/images/redhanded-duck.gif

http://whytheluckystiff.net/clog/ruby/theOnlyCopyrightlessDuckInRecentHistory.html

I now propose that every item here now achieve official Mascot status:
http://www.thispeanutlookslikeaduck.com/

--
Mikael Høilund
http://hoilund.org/

MRH

2008-08-25 02:46:23 UTC

Hey _why,

You rock man.

MRH

Post by Karl von Laudermann
Actually, didn't _why create this duck to be a ruby mascot?
http://redhanded.hobix.com/images/redhanded-duck.gif

http://whytheluckystiff.net/clog/ruby/theOnlyCopyrightlessDuckInRecen...
It is only a duck used to evade copyright infringement. A personal
mascot, spawned by a thread long ago called "duck images" here on
ruby-talk. There used to have a drb server that would cough up ASCII
duck animations.
I know matz was originally amenable to the ruby-crowned kinglet.http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/1469
_why

Phlip

2008-08-25 03:04:32 UTC

Here's a bird that writes (anything) with the tip of its beak.

Loading Image...

But y'all can't have it :-)

--
Phlip

Avdi Grimm

2008-08-22 17:30:11 UTC

From my point of view the ruby-mascot discussion is moot, because it's

too late. Perl got its camel (from the "Camel Book") in 1991. (Or
maybe it already had the camel before the book, I'm not sure). Python
has had... well, a Python since basically its inception. BSD's daemon
originated in 1976(!). Linux has had Tux since 1996.

Ruby has been around since the mid 90s and still has no
widely-recognized mascot. At this point I think it's a little late to
be trying to "backport" in a mascot. It would just feel forced and
artificial.

However, if some folks feel we absolutely *must* have a mascot, I
nominate a nice thick slice of chunky bacon.

Avdi

Home: http://avdi.org
Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi
Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com

Joost Diepenmaat

2008-08-22 20:26:07 UTC

From my point of view the ruby-mascot discussion is moot, because it's
too late. Perl got its camel (from the "Camel Book") in 1991. (Or
maybe it already had the camel before the book, I'm not sure). Python
has had... well, a Python since basically its inception. BSD's daemon
originated in 1976(!). Linux has had Tux since 1996.

Note that Perl's camel is not actually the official mascot; it just
looks like that because for years by far the best book on perl had
that camel on the cover. Perl/Camel combinations are still AFAIK an
O'Reilly trademark.

IIRC Amsterdam.pm even got in some hot water with O'Reilly for
suggesting this as a logo for the Amsterdam edition of YAPC-Europe,
some years ago:

Loading Image...

Ruby has been around since the mid 90s and still has no
widely-recognized mascot. At this point I think it's a little late to
be trying to "backport" in a mascot. It would just feel forced and
artificial.
However, if some folks feel we absolutely *must* have a mascot, I
nominate a nice thick slice of chunky bacon.

Getting to the point: whatever "the ruby logo/mascot" will be(come),
will be whatever iconic image is on "the best ruby book". Personally,
when I think about a ruby logo at all, I think of the "ruby gem" that
pragmatic programmers uses. Not much of a mascot, though.

Still, ruby is 45 years younger than Lisp, and THEY don't have any
kind of standard mascot either: http://lisperati.com/logo.html

--
Joost Diepenmaat | blog: http://joost.zeekat.nl/ | work: http://zeekat.nl/

Jörg W Mittag

2008-08-22 23:56:11 UTC

Post by Joost Diepenmaat
Still, ruby is 45 years younger than Lisp, and THEY don't have any
kind of standard mascot either: http://lisperati.com/logo.html

35 years, actually: Ruby celebrated its 15th birthday this year, Lisp
its 50th.

jwm

Joost Diepenmaat

2008-08-23 00:06:05 UTC

Post by JÃ¶rg W Mittag

Post by Joost Diepenmaat
Still, ruby is 45 years younger than Lisp, and THEY don't have any
kind of standard mascot either: http://lisperati.com/logo.html

35 years, actually: Ruby celebrated its 15th birthday this year, Lisp
its 50th.

You're right, of course.

--
Joost Diepenmaat | blog: http://joost.zeekat.nl/ | work: http://zeekat.nl/

Emmanuel Rubio

2008-08-23 00:20:42 UTC

you are right.. there are too many people just talking about the nude
girl...

any way.. i don't like the manga girl for two reasons: if you put red
hair manga girl on google you get 160.000 images, where almost there are
50.000 diferent girls... what i'm saying is that it's not original at
all...

is not like the pinguin of linux, may there be a lot of pinguin drawings
but tux is tux...all manga characters (well almost all of them) only
diference for their hair...

an other thing is that the mascot should be EASY TO MAKE... that's why
you don't see a full painted and drawed super hero as a logo, maybe
there are their siluete, simple lines or representative things but not a
complete person.

The ruby girl could be as a Special character for ruby (like a tutorial
guide or inviting ruby things) and a mascot (for general porpuse, like
identiti, simbol, mark, etc...)

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Phlip

2008-08-23 02:31:11 UTC

Post by Emmanuel Rubio
The ruby girl could be as a Special character for ruby (like a tutorial
guide or inviting ruby things) and a mascot (for general porpuse, like
identiti, simbol, mark, etc...)

Unless I'm mistaken, I think someone googled for "ruby manga", and then
pretended an artist had ever heard of our little programming language...

--
Phlip

Bill Kelly

2008-08-23 03:56:06 UTC

Post by Emmanuel Rubio
The ruby girl could be as a Special character for ruby (like a tutorial
guide or inviting ruby things) and a mascot (for general porpuse, like
identiti, simbol, mark, etc...)

Unless I'm mistaken, I think someone googled for "ruby manga", and then
pretended an artist had ever heard of our little programming language...

"Ruby -- now with mammalian protruberances!"

;)

Strange; I'm pretty sure I was on ruby-talk before and during the initial
mascot proposals, but I'm not able to locate the initial "ruby-chan"
proposal message in my archives.

Here's an early post that mentions the ruby manga character as
having been illustrated by a Japanese rubyist (which jibes with
memory)... but goes on to propose a Ruby Crowned Kinglet
instead:

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/14121

Anyway, I remember all this from 2001... If we *had* to have a mascot,
I thought the ruby crowned kinglet was pretty cool...

Post by Emmanuel Rubio
defined? Mascot

=> nil

:)

Regards,

Bill

SugHimsi==SUGIHARA Hiroshi

2008-08-23 14:58:13 UTC

Hi Bill,

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:56 JST, Bill Kelly wrote:

: Strange; I'm pretty sure I was on ruby-talk before and during the initial
: mascot proposals, but I'm not able to locate the initial "ruby-chan"
: proposal message in my archives.
:
: Here's an early post that mentions the ruby manga character as
: having been illustrated by a Japanese rubyist (which jibes with
: memory)... but goes on to propose a Ruby Crowned Kinglet
: instead:
:
: http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/14121
:
:
: Anyway, I remember all this from 2001... If we *had* to have a mascot,
: I thought the ruby crowned kinglet was pretty cool...
:
: But I'm perfectly happy with:
:
: >> defined? Mascot
: => nil
:
:
: :)

* I'm actually not for having official Ruby mascot in any sense.
* And I'm not an apt person to comment on this issue, since I had lost
what mascot proposals are given in the URL mentioned above.
* Ancient history, anyway.

Just to point out the illustration in your memory is perhaps around here:

<http://www.clio.ne.jp/home/web-i31s/Flotuard/Ruby/ruby-chan-s.html>
(Ruby-chan-s' portal, since 2001)

Hope in a weekend to cast a glance with a smile.

--
SugHimsi == SUGIHARA Hiroshi
maili31s at CLIO-Net

Rubén Medellín

2008-08-23 15:31:31 UTC

I don't know much about marketing (which has nothing to do with
advertising), but IMHO the ruby image itself represents very well the
language and the community. Among programmers, when we see a ruby we
immediately identify it.

I think Ruby community doesn't need a mascot FOR ITSELF. A mascot
should represent whatever it represents outside of the organisation,
and should identify people in. A penguin can represent a lot of
things, but only Tux represents Linux, and is easily identifiable by
lots of people, even if they are not part of the Linux community.

I'm in favor of a Ruby mascot. Community will then adopt it or discard
it on the run, nothing is broken by trying. The worst that can happen
is that nobody uses it and it <<gracefully degrades>>.

Oh, and no snails. I don't quite like the idea of the girl either, but
that's just me. Actually I think _why's foxes are a good candidate for
a mascot (they have the bonus of being already recognized by at least
many people among the community)

Emmanuel Rubio

2008-08-23 02:55:53 UTC

here is a small example about the mascot that i suggest :P it is just a
fast design... not to much detailed and a lot of errors but it is quite
close what i think

what you say?
Loading Image...

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Emmanuel Rubio

2008-08-23 02:57:39 UTC

Post by Emmanuel Rubio
here is a small example about the mascot that i suggest :P it is just a
fast design... not to much detailed and a lot of errors but it is quite
close what i think
what you say?
http://www.encrucijadaheroes.com.ar/rudycopia.jpg

Loading Image...

with capital R :P this forum should have edit post option :P

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Michal Suchanek

2008-08-23 19:56:48 UTC

Post by Emmanuel Rubio

http://www.encrucijadaheroes.com.ar/Rudycopia.jpg

これもかわいい

Sorry, I couldn't resist ;-)

I would not comment on the points people here are making about what a
mascot should or should not be because that would be a lot of typing
and would only add heat to the discussion I guess.

Anyway it's about somebody drawing something good enough that many
people would use it, various "

MRH

2008-08-23 12:16:07 UTC

(SNIP)

If Ruby needed a mascot it would have one by now. This attempting to
force it to have one is a silly waste of time.

(back to the code - which is what matters)

MRH

Mayuresh Kathe

2008-08-23 12:33:15 UTC

What you find silly might now be silly to another, else there wouldn't
have been such a long discussion about a topic which was run through
before.

A logo and a mascot are a few of the essential items to forming a
community, it helps to rally the members better.

~Mayuresh

Post by MRH
(SNIP)
If Ruby needed a mascot it would have one by now. This attempting to
force it to have one is a silly waste of time.
(back to the code - which is what matters)
MRH

Tommy Morgan

2008-08-23 13:15:06 UTC

Regardless of whether or not I agree with that... you have a self-selection
problem.
The people who have formed the ruby community did so without the aid of a
mascot. So it's easy to see how the community as it exists now is one that
doesn't see the need for some avatar to represent the language - the
language is the language, and they love it for the reasons that they love
it, and that's that.
Attempting to force a community to adopt anything will do nothing but spin
tires. Especially if that community is spontaneous and decentralized, like
the ruby community is.

If a mascot ever does get adopted, I'd be willing to bet it'd be more of a
viral adoption than as part of a "let's sit around and pitch ideas for a
mascot" email thread.

--Tommy M.
http://www.duwanis.com

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
What you find silly might now be silly to another, else there wouldn't
have been such a long discussion about a topic which was run through
before.
A logo and a mascot are a few of the essential items to forming a
community, it helps to rally the members better.
~Mayuresh

Post by MRH
(SNIP)
If Ruby needed a mascot it would have one by now. This attempting to
force it to have one is a silly waste of time.
(back to the code - which is what matters)
MRH

James Britt

2008-08-23 16:37:04 UTC

Post by Tommy Morgan
Regardless of whether or not I agree with that... you have a self-selection
problem.
The people who have formed the ruby community did so without the aid of a
mascot.

Well, there is no *one* Ruby community; there are many. And some
(possibly large) number of Rubyists have abandoned ruby-talk, so the
thread here is hardly indicative of what Rubyists as a whole think of a
mascot. (BTW, this thread is a good example of why people are leaving
this mailing list. Sad to say.) But I am unaware of any Ruby
community that has a mascot, and things seems to be thriving.

Post by Tommy Morgan
So it's easy to see how the community as it exists now is one that
doesn't see the need for some avatar to represent the language - the
language is the language, and they love it for the reasons that they love
it, and that's that.
Attempting to force a community to adopt anything will do nothing but spin
tires. Especially if that community is spontaneous and decentralized, like
the ruby community is.

I imagine that if some Ruby community really wants their own mascot they
will just go adopt one. Some others will giggle.

Post by Tommy Morgan
If a mascot ever does get adopted, I'd be willing to bet it'd be more of a
viral adoption than as part of a "let's sit around and pitch ideas for a
mascot" email thread.

Exactly. Doing beats asking. But be careful what you wish for.

--
James Britt

www.happycamperstudios.com - Wicked Cool Coding
www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff

Tommy Morgan

2008-08-23 16:53:07 UTC

Post by Tommy Morgan
Regardless of whether or not I agree with that... you have a
self-selection
problem.
The people who have formed the ruby community did so without the aid of a
mascot.

Well, there is no *one* Ruby community; there are many. And some (possibly
large) number of Rubyists have abandoned ruby-talk, so the thread here is
hardly indicative of what Rubyists as a whole think of a mascot. (BTW,
this thread is a good example of why people are leaving this mailing list.
Sad to say.) But I am unaware of any Ruby community that has a mascot,
and things seems to be thriving.

True, that's what I meant. Since no community (either the community at
large, or a sub-community) seems to have a mascot, it's a safe assumption
that a mascot isn't a huge draw for the people who are already using the
language.

So it's easy to see how the community as it exists now is one that

Post by Tommy Morgan
doesn't see the need for some avatar to represent the language - the
language is the language, and they love it for the reasons that they love
it, and that's that.
Attempting to force a community to adopt anything will do nothing but spin
tires. Especially if that community is spontaneous and decentralized, like
the ruby community is.

I imagine that if some Ruby community really wants their own mascot they
will just go adopt one. Some others will giggle.

True, but the point of this thread seems to be "let's make an official
mascot." I don't think that's something that can really be done
declaratively (unless Matz feels like it, but I get the impression that he
has other things he'd rather be doing at the moment ;) ).

If a mascot ever does get adopted, I'd be willing to bet it'd be more of a

Post by Tommy Morgan
viral adoption than as part of a "let's sit around and pitch ideas for a
mascot" email thread.

Exactly. Doing beats asking. But be careful what you wish for.

Oh, I'm not wishing, trust me :)

--
James Britt
www.happycamperstudios.com - Wicked Cool Coding
www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff

MRH

2008-08-24 07:00:59 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
What you find silly might now be silly to another, else there wouldn't
have been such a long discussion about a topic which was run through
before.

Most posts are not in favor of a mascot from what I have read of this
thread. This is probably why there isn't one to begin with - and I
hope it stays that way.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
A logo and a mascot are a few of the essential items to forming a
community,

Funny, that an essential item has been missing all these years yet
there are and have been many Ruby communities in existence at this
very moment.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
it helps to rally the members better.

???

Last time I checked, Ruby was a programming language, and the members
of its community were bound by their use of the language, not by
whether or not a cartoon mascot existed.

I can think of no programmer worth his salt who would need a cartoon
mascot to "rally" with others in a "better" fashion.

This is about the code.

Mayuresh Kathe

2008-08-24 10:40:50 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
What you find silly might now be silly to another, else there wouldn't
have been such a long discussion about a topic which was run through
before.

Most posts are not in favor of a mascot from what I have read of this
thread. This is probably why there isn't one to begin with - and I
hope it stays that way.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
A logo and a mascot are a few of the essential items to forming a
community,

Funny, that an essential item has been missing all these years yet
there are and have been many Ruby communities in existence at this
very moment.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
it helps to rally the members better.

???
Last time I checked, Ruby was a programming language, and the members
of its community were bound by their use of the language, not by
whether or not a cartoon mascot existed.

Going by your logic, even the logo is irrelevant, but it was an effort
supported by Matz himself.

Post by MRH
I can think of no programmer worth his salt who would need a cartoon
mascot to "rally" with others in a "better" fashion.

Then why does every "major" programming effort have a mascot/logo?
FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, Darwin, Minix3, Python, Apache, ...

Its good to be a programmer, but its important to be a programmer having taste.

~Mayuresh

Wilson Bilkovich

2008-08-24 15:49:01 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Going by your logic, even the logo is irrelevant, but it was an effort
supported by Matz himself.

The logo is irrelevant. I can't recall ever having seen it on
anything, other than the ruby-lang.org website. It has also been
widely criticized in this community for not scaling well and not
looking good in greyscale.

Logos, unlike mascots, at least help anchor a webpage design.

MRH

2008-08-25 02:40:52 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Going by your logic, even the logo is irrelevant, but it was an effort
supported by Matz himself.

Nice try on your part, yet laughable. You stated "essential", and I
countered by implying that it was not essential, and now you twist
that around to "irrelevant" (a cheap strawman wearing a sign that says
"your logic"), and throw in Matz's name.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Then why does every "major" programming effort have a mascot/logo?
FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, Darwin, Minix3, Python, Apache, ...

Each community wanted one, obviously.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Its good to be a programmer, but its important to be a programmer having taste.

Anyone worthy of being referred to as a programmer knows that taste is
subjective, this is only obvious . . . yet the concept is obviously
alien to you.

How old are you again?

Mayuresh Kathe

2008-08-25 06:44:15 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Going by your logic, even the logo is irrelevant, but it was an effort
supported by Matz himself.

Your analytical system is seriously flawed and so is your logic.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Then why does every "major" programming effort have a mascot/logo?
FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, Darwin, Minix3, Python, Apache, ...

Each community wanted one, obviously.

So what is stopping the Ruby community from wanting one?
That's a question which has been asked before, "why" doesn't the Ruby
community want a mascot?

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Its good to be a programmer, but its important to be a programmer having taste.

Anyone worthy of being referred to as a programmer knows that taste is
subjective, this is only obvious . . . yet the concept is obviously
alien to you.

There you go off at a tangent again.
Taste can sometimes also be absolute.
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.

But then again, taste is a concept obviously alien to you.

Post by MRH
How old are you again?

31.

~Mayuresh

MRH

2008-08-25 07:25:48 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Your analytical system is seriously flawed and so is your logic.

Interesting, coming from you. See below.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
So what is stopping the Ruby community from wanting one?

The question makes no sense. Nothing is "stopping the Ruby community
from wanting" a mascot. People simply do not want one. The reasons are
in all likelihood multiple, and do not need to be justified.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
That's a question which has been asked before, "why" doesn't the Ruby
community want a mascot?

Once again, if the community wanted one, one would already exist.
That's more than obvious. See above.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
There you go off at a tangent again.

I do not think tangent means what you think it means.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Taste can sometimes also be absolute.

False. Ludicrous.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.

A fact? That's ridiculous, stating that something as subjective as
finding Apple products to feature tasteful design is "an accepted
fact." Laughable, that is.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
But then again, taste is a concept obviously alien to you.

Even if that were so (and you have no way of knowing this) I can at
least differentiate between objective and subjective.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
31.

I am shocked, I figured you were a teenager.

MRH

Mayuresh Kathe

2008-08-25 14:03:27 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Your analytical system is seriously flawed and so is your logic.

Interesting, coming from you. See below.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
So what is stopping the Ruby community from wanting one?

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
That's a question which has been asked before, "why" doesn't the Ruby
community want a mascot?

Once again, if the community wanted one, one would already exist.
That's more than obvious. See above.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
There you go off at a tangent again.

I do not think tangent means what you think it means.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
Taste can sometimes also be absolute.

False. Ludicrous.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.

A fact? That's ridiculous, stating that something as subjective as
finding Apple products to feature tasteful design is "an accepted
fact." Laughable, that is.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
But then again, taste is a concept obviously alien to you.

Even if that were so (and you have no way of knowing this) I can at
least differentiate between objective and subjective.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
31.

I am shocked, I figured you were a teenager.

This thing is going to go on for ever, it's pointless discussing
issues of community building and taste with someone like you.

And this thread has gone on way too long, I will no more post on this thread.

This community is really great, don't want to pollute it with a
discussion that is going no where.

Best,

~Mayuresh

MRH

2008-08-25 14:36:01 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This thing is going to go on for ever, it's pointless discussing
issues of community building and taste with someone like you.

If it is pointless it is only because you have clearly demonstrated
that you haven't the slightest clue. This community is driven by an
exceptional programming language the design of which has more taste
than you can fathom. If you could, you would not have kicked off this
thread. I found your focus on a cartoon mascot to be offensive in that
it implicitly belittles the virtues and merits of the Ruby programming
language. The language does not need a cartoon mascot, it stands tall
on its own merit.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
And this thread has gone on way too long, I will no more post on this thread.

You referred to the amount of discussion as something positive in an
earlier post. What happened pray tell?

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This community is really great, don't want to pollute it with a
discussion that is going no where.

You already have I am afraid. I must hand it to you, you managed to
irk me (and several other members as far as I can see) and this tends
to be a comparatively cool and laid back crowd.

MRH

Clinton D. Judy

2008-08-25 14:53:04 UTC

Wow, I haven't been in this thread for a while. Getting a little hot in
here.

I won't post about a mascot anymore, I can tell this is apparently a
pretty controversial idea. My closing thoughts: If a mascot is made and
the community rallies behind it, it will happen virally. Someone will
make a mascot on their own (or commission one on their own) anyway, and
if enough people like it, so be it.

Come to think of it, our local meetup might have fun with a locally
themed mascot.

- Clinton

-----Original Message-----
From: MRH [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:36 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This thing is going to go on for ever, it's pointless discussing
issues of community building and taste with someone like you.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
And this thread has gone on way too long, I will no more post on this thread.

You referred to the amount of discussion as something positive in an
earlier post. What happened pray tell?

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This community is really great, don't want to pollute it with a
discussion that is going no where.

You already have I am afraid. I must hand it to you, you managed to
irk me (and several other members as far as I can see) and this tends
to be a comparatively cool and laid back crowd.

MRH

reuben doetsch

2008-08-25 16:33:05 UTC

how about everyone just waits for Matz to say something, everyone is just
saying, "Matz this, matz that, matz said blah blah", let's just wait for him
to say something or maybe some one ask him. It is true that most large scale
OS's or Programming languages have some symbol.
For the peopel that say that it is not necessary, the mascot is not
for anyone on this mailing list, because, obvsiouly, we are on this mailing
list because we are passionent about Ruby. The logo and masoct should be
used so people new to programming or Ruby have a association in there head
with Ruby plus something interesting or cool. The human mind remembers
images much better than it remembers words, or facts. So, instead of someone
saying, "What is that great dynamic languages with every feature I want" and
not remembering the name, they think to the logo and the logo connotates the
name. This is how many poeple who can remember a lot of things remember
them, with images that connotate the word to be remembered.

Reuben

Post by Clinton D. Judy
Wow, I haven't been in this thread for a while. Getting a little hot in
here.
I won't post about a mascot anymore, I can tell this is apparently a
pretty controversial idea. My closing thoughts: If a mascot is made and
the community rallies behind it, it will happen virally. Someone will
make a mascot on their own (or commission one on their own) anyway, and
if enough people like it, so be it.
Come to think of it, our local meetup might have fun with a locally
themed mascot.
- Clinton
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:36 AM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This thing is going to go on for ever, it's pointless discussing
issues of community building and taste with someone like you.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
And this thread has gone on way too long, I will no more post on this

thread.
You referred to the amount of discussion as something positive in an
earlier post. What happened pray tell?

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This community is really great, don't want to pollute it with a
discussion that is going no where.

You already have I am afraid. I must hand it to you, you managed to
irk me (and several other members as far as I can see) and this tends
to be a comparatively cool and laid back crowd.
MRH

Clinton D. Judy

2008-08-25 16:38:24 UTC

Gah, I said I wouldn't post anymore.

We already have a symbol. A ruby. It works really well as a symbol, for
the reasons you state.

We're discussing the possibility of a mascot. I think the logo works
fine for the language, and I think the idea of a mascot was more of a
community thing. Maybe I'm mistaken. In any case, the mailing list has
at least said, by large, that they don't want a mascot.

I'm just going to use _why's foxes if I ever need to. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: reuben doetsch [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 12:33 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: A Mascot...

how about everyone just waits for Matz to say something, everyone is
just
saying, "Matz this, matz that, matz said blah blah", let's just wait for
him
to say something or maybe some one ask him. It is true that most large
scale
OS's or Programming languages have some symbol.
For the peopel that say that it is not necessary, the mascot is
not
for anyone on this mailing list, because, obvsiouly, we are on this
mailing
list because we are passionent about Ruby. The logo and masoct should be
used so people new to programming or Ruby have a association in there
head
with Ruby plus something interesting or cool. The human mind remembers
images much better than it remembers words, or facts. So, instead of
someone
saying, "What is that great dynamic languages with every feature I want"
and
not remembering the name, they think to the logo and the logo connotates
the
name. This is how many poeple who can remember a lot of things remember
them, with images that connotate the word to be remembered.

Reuben

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This thing is going to go on for ever, it's pointless discussing
issues of community building and taste with someone like you.

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
And this thread has gone on way too long, I will no more post on this

thread.
You referred to the amount of discussion as something positive in an
earlier post. What happened pray tell?

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This community is really great, don't want to pollute it with a
discussion that is going no where.

You already have I am afraid. I must hand it to you, you managed to
irk me (and several other members as far as I can see) and this tends
to be a comparatively cool and laid back crowd.
MRH

Jörg W Mittag

2008-08-25 17:25:45 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
This thing is going to go on for ever, it's pointless discussing
issues of community building and taste with someone like you.

This community is also driven by the principle "Matz is nice so we are
nice."

jwm

David Masover

2008-08-25 07:52:23 UTC

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.

It's too late, and I'm too tired to give this the hearty laugh it deserves...

A fact would be that _many_ Apple products have received good reviews for
design -- and even then, "many" is a subjective quantity. (How many? What
percentage? is "many"?)

Closer would be a fact stating that a certain percentage of consumers you
asked approve of Apple's design, in general -- or maybe they approve of the
iPhone, in particular.

Whether they actually _are_ tasteful is opinion, not fact.

In fact, the first iMacs were widely regarded tasteless, at least among people
I know. Were they wrong? If so, why?

Bill Kelly

2008-08-25 09:05:27 UTC

Post by David Masover

Post by Mayuresh Kathe
All Apple products are tastefully done, that's an accepted fact.

It's too late, and I'm too tired to give this the hearty laugh it deserves...

Bemused chuckle accompanied by a slightly incredulous and rueful
head shake here.

Post by David Masover
A fact would be that _many_ Apple products have received good reviews for
design -- and even then, "many" is a subjective quantity. (How many? What
percentage? is "many"?)
Closer would be a fact stating that a certain percentage of consumers you
asked approve of Apple's design, in general -- or maybe they approve of the
iPhone, in particular.
Whether they actually _are_ tasteful is opinion, not fact.
In fact, the first iMacs were widely regarded tasteless, at least among people
I know. Were they wrong? If so, why?

Indeed. Anyone remember when Apple's QuickTime Player was
inducted into the Interface Hall of Shame?

http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/qtime.htm

Seems like only yesterday. (A quick spot check on the
current Windows version of the player reveals the persistence
of some of these misfeatures after nearly a decade...!
After opening the QuickTime Player application, one
still can't drag movies from the desktop onto the weird
QuickTime "home page" window that presents itself by
default. I just launched a movie player application, and
can't drop movies onto it? ... And the volume slider is
not visually disabled, but becomes immobile whenever the
volume has been muted...with no visual cue whatsoever.
I just spent a good 10-15 mouse clicks puzzling over
why the volume slider wouldn't move. Maybe because the
movie was paused? No... Hmm... Maybe this movie doesn't
have an audio track? No? ... etc.)

It's clear Apple was attempting to be _stylish_ with
their interface.

But in order for the result to be considered tasteful it
should probably meet some basic criteria like not sucking.

(Ugh... anyway... apologies for the off-topic post.)

Regards,

Bill

Phlip

2008-08-25 11:30:45 UTC

Post by Bill Kelly
Bemused chuckle accompanied by a slightly incredulous and rueful
head shake here.

I was pairing with a mac user recently. The text carat was here:

ab|c

To delete c, they typed Right, then Delete.

It was really sad to watch...

--
Phlip

David Masover

2008-08-27 03:33:14 UTC

Post by Phlip
To delete c, they typed Right, then Delete.

To be fair, it's now possible to get a reasonably full-sized keyboard from
Apple. It's one of the best keyboards I've ever used, as far as simply
typing -- and it does include a "delete ->" button, for what "del" does on
other keyboards (and in exactly the same place).

There are, however, MANY other things to hate about that keyboard. Simple
example: It doesn't have an insert key; it has "fn" there instead, which is
interpreted inside the keyboard (it never hits the OS). Thus, the only way to
remap it _might_ be to change the firmware inside the thing.

Phlip

2008-08-23 15:50:59 UTC

Post by MRH
If Ruby needed a mascot it would have one by now. This attempting to
force it to have one is a silly waste of time.

Okay, point the camera at the Ruby gem, and slowly push in, with atmospheric
music. Start a high-hat tickle, going Dit-Daah-Dit, Dit-Daah-Dit. Bring up some
eerie violins.

Just as the alto saxophone starts, deep within the glowing depths of the Ruby
gem, we see a springing feline silhouette, with a long cigarette holder. It's:

----> The Pink Panther! <----

--
Henry Mancini

Todd Benson

2008-08-23 20:17:32 UTC

Post by MRH
(SNIP)
If Ruby needed a mascot it would have one by now. This attempting to
force it to have one is a silly waste of time.
(back to the code - which is what matters)

You obviously haven't studied marketing/branding. To hope that the
ability of a program/OS/library stands on its own is only partly true.
Exposure is best for everyone in the long run, and the picture of a
"ruby" cut gem doesn't cut it. It shines but is ultimately inanimate.

If you only want to attract intellectuals, then by all means, omit any
kind of mascot/branding. I'm fine with that.

I can foresee a problem with a cute female mascot, simply from other
programming camps (hey, look!
"picture_of_ruby-chan_cheerleader_upskirt.png") proliferated on python
lists to point out naivety and an exposure type nature. Now, you
could apply this ploy with pretty much anything, but the whole cutesy
girl thing makes that chance easy (pun intended?)

I don't want to go into other things of what a python could do with
ruby-chan exemplified in manga comics to make the Ruby language seem
inferior.

I did like the idea of the raccoon though. But, then you could
scandalously destroy that one, too, with a simple cartoon of a raccoon
reaching for a shiny ruby in a hand trap. Apparently, the real life
raccoon has a hard time letting go of something. Fist gets big, won't
let go, and barbs in the trap pointing into the trap hole depths
capture the critter, because among it's kind, stubbornness abounds.
Analogy: programming freedom sought, but lost in the end via a simple
trap. You can see that argument coming from a mile away.

I don't like the sound of that now that I think about it.

Meerkats, anyone? j/k

Todd

Michael T. Richter

2008-08-24 03:38:07 UTC